Saturday, September 15, 2007

Suck It, Jesus. You too, Mohammad

Ann Althouse links to this story and this CNN Video of Kathy Griffin saying "suck it Jesus" after winning the Emmy. Of course, professional offendee Bill Donahue is on TV being offended. I for one thought her comment was hilarious, and the reactions of the people being offended even more so. Anybody who isn't in the business of being offended understands the point of her joke: that it's absurd to think that God cares about who wins an Emmy. My favorite variation of this is the athletes who think God intervenes to change the outcome of sporting events. He couldn't be be bothered to save millions of people in the Holocaust and tens of millions in Communist Holocausts, but he sure cares about that Auburn/Alabama game!

As Professor Althouse observed, quite a few bloggers made the point that if Griffin had said "suck it Mohammad," a lot more would have taken umbrage. As Cassy Fiano over at Wizbang noted:

Let's just pretend for a second. Let's pretend we removed the name "Jesus" from her lovely little speech and let's insert the name "Mohammad".

Now let's imagine what the response would be. Griffin would be chastised as a bigot. CAIR would be calling for public apologies and tolerance seminars, and I'm sure we'd see Muslims rioting and calling for much more than a public apology.


Well, sure. And it's also true that many -- not all, but many -- of the liberal-minded folks who line up with Kathy Griffin now would be less tolerant of her comments if she had gone after Mohammed. This is partly because it's more physically dangerous to insult Muslims. Bill Donahue is an insufferable twit, but he is highly unlikely to actually kill anybody. But it is also also because much of the liberal self-image is about sticking up for victims, and many of our friends on the left stupidly people view Muslims as a victim group.

I am already on record as being in favor of Koran desecration. The freedom to criticize, ridicule, or even insult religion is absolutely central to both free speech and freedom of religion. We shouldn't give in to Christian Censorship Envy and start censoring anti-Christian speech more. Rather, we should all make a concerted effort to insult Mohammad on a regular basis and make Muslims accept it. The way to attack this disparity is by demanding tolerance for "suck it Mohammed" in addition to "suck it, Jesus."

The Griffin thing does serve a useful purpose in this project: it helps to educate Muslims that, while you can remonstrate with somebody who insults your religion, or express disagreement or condemnation, at the end of the day you don't get to kill them. So I applaud Griffin, and I encourage her to invite Mohammed to suck it after Jesus is done sucking.

Of course, not everybody feels the way I do. Some folks are just outraged by the whole thing. Here is my absolutely favorite outraged reaction, by blogger Aurvant. I don't think it's a parody, though of course I could be taken in:

I’m not sure but if it was possible for a person to carve out their own personal niche in Hell I’m pretty certain that Kathy Griffin just build herself a mansion of torment in that Dark Place where the Worn Never Dies and the Fire is Never Quenched.

Seriously, I couldn’t stand to hear it due to the skin crawling effect it sent down my spine. I’m hoping for some kind of divine retribution but her getting her spotlight stolen at the Emmy’s is a start.


Let me get this straight. This guy believes that God has his own personal torture chamber. Which is bad enough. In his torture chamber, God doesn't just torture the folks who really, really, really deserve it: the really evil people who killed millions like Hitler and Marx and Mao and Stalin and Pol Pot. Serial killers. Child molesters, Rapists. He also tortures people like Kathy Griffin, who do nothing other than tell Jesus to suck it. This blogger says he is "pretty certain" he is going to torture Griffin for all eternity for this. Not only that, he's actively "hoping" she gets this "divine retribution." He wants her to be tortured.

I previously blogged about Mother Teresa's fetish for suffering, but at least Mother T presumably thought that the people who were brought cloeser to God by dying wracked with pain would be free of the suffering in the afterlife. Sure, she wanted to increase human pain and misery here on Earth, but I see no reason she was the sort of sadist who relishes other people being tortured for all eternity. But this dude actually relishes the thought.

It is pretty hard to square the whole "God With a Torture Chamber" idea with the notion that this deity is kind and benevolent and loves us. Particularly if he casts people into the torture chamber for such trivial slights. I can imagine a deity who tortures people who insult him for all eternity, and I can see it might behoove one to worship such a powerful and sadistic entity. But such a being isn't an all-loving deity -- it's a supremely powerful deranged psychopath. You would worship such a God for the same reason you might obey an armed bank robber who just killed a guard: terror.

I will say this: any being who tortures Kathy Griffin for all eternity because she made an arguably-offensive comment isn't worthy of my worship. Or yours.

12 comments:

evanescent said...

Excellent post! You're spot on that there is no reason why religion is exempt of abuse. For purposes of comedy or just our own personal rants, we can mock politicians, sports stars, even the crippled should we so wish (as cruel as some may consider it); the point is that it's freedom of speech. And if religion thinks it has a get-out-of-abuse free card we should show it that it's sadly mistaken!

SUCK IT, JESUS. SUCK, IT ALLAH! VISHNU, GO SUCK YOURSELF!

(Of course I'm not being intentionally offensive to theists, the point is that IF I WANT TO though, I have the right to.)

Anonymous said...

I was struck by the reaction of the blogger Aurvant in wanting her punished. Just talking to a good friend this week who went to a private convent school, and she said to me "there's no other word for it - those nuns were just evil" I was a bit shocked, we've all heard stories about bad nuns but I sort of assumed they were in the minority, but apparently not.

Ian said...

"God doesn't just torture the folks who really, really, really deserve it: the really evil people who killed millions like Hitler and Marx and Mao and Stalin and Pol Pot."

As they sang in Sesame Street, "one of these things is not like the other/one of these things is not the same."

Which population was it that Marx, a political scientist, economist, historian, philosopher, etc. etc. killed? Agree or disagree with his academic theses as you will, but writing a flawed treatise on economics is hardly equivalent to killing millions one assumes.

Other than that though, great post. It should be far more offensive to people who actually buy what the bible's selling to hear someone claim that Jesus gave him or her an Emmy, but you never here public condemnation of that weak theology, since it serves to promote their tired man-in-the-sky delusions.

Anonymous said...

Since I'm actually referenced in your comments I figure I should at least grace the comments with my presence.

First off! Let me just say that I hadn't figured that my divine retribution comment (which was satire by the way) would be so loathed and abhorred. Sorry if that offends you, but just like Ms. Griffin I do kinda have the right to offend don't I? At least in your views that is.

Second off! Ms. Griffin likes to consider herself a "militant atheist" (her words not mine) which means she is an active member of society who constantly opposes theism. Technically this actually makes her a Misotheist (which means "One who hates God") and that means her statement shouldn't be misunderstood and thought to just be some jolly joke about people who trivially thank Jesus for winning an award.

Third off! (amusing little bullets I have) Marx didn't kill any form of population. I mean...if you want to use that argument Charles Manson DIDN'T kill anyone at Sarah Tate's house that night long ago, but his twisted world and society views drove people to do it. Manson was charged and still remains in jail to this day. Marx, I guess, died before he could be properly charged.

Lastly...off! Yeah....nothing here to really close on is there? Oh! I know! Don't be too offended by what I say. I'm only "making a joke" ;P

Goddess Cassandra said...

I've got to go with the above poster: I don't remember ANYWHERE in Marx's philosophies encouraging anyone to kill anybody else. And he certainly didn't kill anyone that I know of.

cheerful iconoclast said...

Aurvant, thanks for the comment. Glad to know you were joking.

I suppose you would call me a "misotheist" too, although I think it's something of a misnomer. I don't "hate" God any more than I hate the Tooth Fairy or Santa Claus. I just think that God, the Tooth Ferry, and Santa Claus are beings who don't exist.

As to the Marxism subthread, Marx's political philosophy, when applied, has resulted in tens of millions of deaths -- nobody knows the exact total, but it's more than 50 million and may be as much as 100 million. If the attempt to implement Marxism had resulted in one instance of megadeaths, you could argue that it was just a deluded follower. But the fact that it happened over and over suggests that there is something deeply wrong with the theory.

Theists aren't the only bad guys in this world, you know.

Anonymous said...

In a sense, all followers of Mohammed are already telling Jesus, Vishnu, Buddah, etc, to go suck it.

The public, outdoor, Islamic call to prayer (5x daily, worldwide), specifically states that there is no god but the god for whom Mohammad is his (ultimate) prophet.

That is, all Muslims are publicly yelling in the street that everyone else's views on religion are wrong.

If Muslims turn out not to be completely correct, then they have abandoned any right to complain about public criticism of other religious views, as they do it themselves, as a matter of routine policy.

Anonymous said...

Actually, Capitalism can be blamed for millions of deaths too... Well, you see, I'm a capitalist, bu I don't think there is any one murderous economic system. There are murderous people, and they are everywhere, most unhappily...

Anonymous said...

You forgot to mention that when Jesus said to love your enemies and bless those who persecute you, he probably DIDN'T mean to wish ETERNAL TORMENT on them.

梁爵 said...

2019.08.29台北市政府21日下午舉行酒店工作會報,會中酒店經紀商業處報告北市飲酒店、小吃店裁罰情形,其中有兩家知名酒店業者因違反土管遭罰,柯文哲當場質疑,為何八大行業會有業者明知違規但仍要砸千萬投資裝潢?他是無辜老百姓不知道犯法、還是他們覺得「很穩」?哪一種?最後柯更裁示,要求把該酒店上班的地址送到市長室,「市長去看就好了,我跑去消費一下。」酒店經紀指出,凱冠名店(原富都名店)、晶都名店(原全盛名店)兩店,皆因未辦妥酒吧業許可即營業,經複查後仍經營酒吧業,且同時違反建築法,爰由建管處從重裁罰業者6萬元並限期3個月改善,前者期限為9月28日,後者期限為8月27日,商業處將進行複查並得以連續開罰。聽完報告後,柯文哲直言有疑問,如果要開一個酒店,業者要投資3千萬去做不合法的東西,他怎麼敢?如果開一家老人茶室裡面簡單擺幾個桌子就算了,「花好幾千萬裝潢結果是非法的,我每次都很好奇他怎麼敢?除非他很有把握,不然他怎麼敢?」另外,建管處補充,該兩家業者使用的區域並非酒吧、飲酒店業,已經違反土地使用分區管制,未來解套方就是變更營業態樣,可以透過縮減營業面積的方式,否則就依《建築法》連續開罰,後續還可加重裁處。柯文哲表示,哲以後就是抓到那種裝潢很貴的非法的東西,第一個要問這是誰管這些酒店上班的酒店小姐公安規劃,甚至還追問當地為哪個警分局的轄區。隨後柯說,為什麼可以限期改善?是酒店變咖啡廳?不能營業就是不能營業。

梁爵 said...

2020.01.09台北酒店經紀人力銀行北部酒店工作開發部暨發展中心知名酒店經紀表示,以往上班族酒店兼差大多以門檻低、需要大量酒店小姐的酒店上班服務業為主,不過,隨著網路科技進步,八大行業就業酒店打工市場兼差型態也開始轉變,像是網紅、直播主首次擠入酒店上班從事酒店兼職工作的前5名。不過,許多年輕人要成為知名紅牌酒店小姐需要有創意、具備個人特色或是領域專業,也要具備國外接飯局(陪睡性交易)企劃、經過酒店經紀後製及行銷能力。酒店小姐要先吸睛,才有機會吸金。為了解上班族酒店兼職/大學生酒店兼差現況,酒店經紀人力銀行特別設計「台北風俗酒店經紀兼差現況調查」,酒店經紀2020年自1月1日到12月30日間進行網路亞洲大規模酒店上班問卷抽樣調查,有效樣本數為2000份,信心水準93%,誤差值為正負7.9個百分點。

梁爵 said...

2020.05.09八大行業酒店工作及舞廳業遭政府勒令停業近一個月,即使疫情趨緩,指揮中心仍未給出明確復業日期,讓酒店上班酒店小姐叫苦連天,她們有的因為繳不出房租被房東驅趕,還有單親媽媽不堪經濟壓力差點輕生,她們呼籲政府立即公告復業,並痛批紓困沒落實,很多公關想申請卻被打回票,感覺就像在耍他們。4月8日一名酒店S酒店公關確診,中央流行疫情指揮中心立即勒令八大行業隔日酒店業停業,約48萬酒店相關從業人員頓失生計。一個月來,酒店PT基層人員的近況到底如何?政府的紓困有沒有照顧到這些人的需求?我們追蹤訪問了酒店經紀人梁曉尊和禮服店酒店打工公關明明(化名)的說法。因受疫情和政府的政策影響,酒店公關明明在一個月前失業,她說,自己本來至少月入4萬,但現在只能靠紓困金過活。雖然明明有申請到衛福部的急難救助金2萬元,但是根本無法彌補她因為停業造成的薪資損失,現在她還申請了勞動部的紓困貸款,希望度過難關。酒店經紀梁曉尊/梁小尊則說,她現在做不成經紀人,兼職做別的工作,也申請了勞動部的紓困貸款。明明和梁曉尊都是政府一夕間勒令停業,卻沒有定出任何復業期限的直接受害者。除了她們以外,還有一些是更弱勢、處境更慘的酒店小姐。明明說,有公關因為繳不出房租,遭房東要求搬走;還有一位公關是單身媽媽,戶頭僅剩幾千元,卻有小孩要養,因不堪龐大壓力一度想輕生。因應疫情,政府看似推出多種紓困方案,但是對失業陷入困境的勞工來說,其實是杯水車薪。「我雖然拿到2萬,但是又貸了10萬,這不是倒虧8萬嗎?」明明無奈地說。梁小尊也質疑,政府近日推出「擴大急難紓困」方案,每戶發1萬元現金,但申請資格是以家戶為單位計算,全家人每人每月收入加存款低於最低生活費2倍才可申請,且每戶只能請領一次,但是每個家庭狀況不一樣,父母財產不一定會分給小孩,要求每戶共享這1萬元,不僅沒道理,幫助也非常有限。區公所申請紓困 竟只有六分之一成功由於絕大多數酒店公關沒有勞保,現在他們能申請的紓困方案,主要就是衛福部1萬至3萬元的急難紓困金,或者向勞動部申請最高10萬元的紓困貸款。透過各地鄉鎮市區公所申請的急難紓困金,成為酒店小姐失業後的救命管道。然而,儘管行政院打包票說放寬申請資格,要讓有生活困難的民眾都領得到,實際的申請狀況卻完全不是這麼一回事。由酒店公關和經紀人組成、積極協助同業申請紓困的「酒店經紀梁曉尊」就透露,近來有超過60名酒店從業人員向他們諮詢,但是根據回報,成功被區公所受理的案例,竟然只有10名,成功率僅六分之一。被打回票的,大多都是拿不出區公所要求的文件,例如停業證明、工作證明,或是切結書沒有蓋公司章等等。梁小尊指出,公關本來就很難檢附這些文件,例如現行業界店家與公關並非僱傭關係,沒有合約之類的僱傭證明,而基層也很難取得公司蓋章或是停業證明。「衛福部好像在耍我們。」梁小尊說,她雖然成功申請到急難紓困金,但也是跑了兩趟區公所才辦成,還另外去了戶政事務所和國稅局拿到相關文件,才獲得受理。由於申請急難紓困要求的資料過於繁雜,也引發民眾怒火,衛福部也趕緊在昨天(5/6)宣布,民眾只需攜帶身分證與簽切結書即可申請,其他證明文件可由政府代查。不過梁曉尊質疑,中央的政策說得「很好聽」,可是關鍵在於地方有沒有同步照做。她說,申請的狀況每間區公所都不一樣,有的會要求出示證明,有的比較寬鬆,所以重點是要中央地方統一程序,真正簡化申請流程,「像是八大行業,若沒有相關證明,應該只要簽一個切結書,就可申請。」酒店業遭關近月 小姐盼「立即復業」疫情至今,確診肺炎的病例遍布各行業,卻唯獨只有酒店、舞廳業被勒令停業,即使確診女公關和123名接觸者都已全部檢測陰性結案,全台疫情也趨緩獲得控制,酒店業復業仍遙遙無期。「很生氣…真的又累又生氣!」梁曉尊說,疫情既已趨緩,指揮中心應該立即公告讓酒店復業,業界都願意配合防疫指示及相關控管機制。明明怒批,政府僅針對酒店業祭出停業措施,且沒有復業期限,根本是「柿子挑軟的吃」,看準酒店業是被長期歧視和污名化的產業,不會有太多人關注,停業後政府也沒有像補助其他產業一樣提供紓困,很明顯就是大小眼。指揮中心昨日被問到酒店業何時復業時表示,只要酒店業者做好防疫管理,地方主管機關可以允許恢復營業,今天指揮官陳時中又說了一次「只要任何單位符合防疫標準,就沒有所謂禁止問題」,但都沒有說明確切復業日期,復業標準也令人霧煞煞。回顧當初的酒店停業決定,是指揮中心一句話就要全台酒店和舞廳停業,現在又把皮球踢給各地方政府,地方能不能和中央同調又成為一個未解問題。從4月9日酒店業停業至今,有的酒店小姐轉入地下化,有的繳不出房租,有的連紓困也領不到,她們只想問:何時才能見到復業的曙光?